Has anyone found a way to take the border of a command button ive tiried ive made button flat but it still apaears to have border around it i would like it with no border another thing has anyone to move the toolbar sily qesiton but evertime i change the top to a lower positon it just wont budge

Just use a label. Same effect, different look.

What toolbar are you trying to move?

The Toolbar shown in the visual basic windows common controls 6.0

evertime i try and move it even change the the top of the bar it wont move
i tried toobar1.top=400 but it wont move
and tried just dragging it down but still wont move

Toolbars are meant to be on the top of the form... That's just how it is.